Thursday, October 2, 2008

Vice Presidential Debate: Open Thread/Live Blogging

Open Thread/Live Blogging.

Looking forward to your comments below.

And here we go...

We're playing Palin Bingo.

You can make it the Palin drinking game. Take a drink if Palin says any of the following:

Tax Relief
Pit Bull
Main Street

Foreign Oil
Gotcha Journalism
Job Creation
Special Needs
Phone it In

Pro Life
President Karzai

National Guard


Palin: Blames everything on evil, predator lenders. Hockey Moms and Joe 6-Pack know better. Let's do what our parents told us -- don't live outside our means. We have an opportunity to learn a lot of good lessons through this and never again be taken advantage of.

Biden: Two years ago Barack Obama warned about the sub-prime lending crisis. The Republicans including Senator John McCain called for DEREGULATION. Over 20 times in the last two years, John McCain has called for more deregulation of the financial markets. In fact, recently John McCain called for more deregulation on health care.

Palin: Obama is against tax relief. 94 times Obama voted for higher taxes. That is what Obama is for, increasing taxes, as late as last year, on people making as little as $42K.

Biden: The charge is absolutely not true. John McCain voted the same way. It was a budget procdeural vote. But you notice Palin did not answer the question about deregulation.

Ifill: Would you like a chance to answer the question?

Palin: I'm still on the tax thing, and that's what I'm going to bring to the American people.

Ifill: We're going to move on.

Ifill: Taxes?

Biden: Under our plan, people would pay no more than under Ronald Regean.

Palin: It isn't patriotic to ....(couldn't quite tell.. either) [pay your taxes] (or) [pay more taxes.]

Biden: We don't call giving a huge tax cut from Exxon-Mobile to the middle class a tax hike, we call it a redistribution. How John McCain's health plan works is 12 million of you are going to be dropped from his health plan, and the rest will have to pay $5,000 each to the insurance companies. That is what I call the ultimate bridge to nowhere.

Palin: The nice thing about running with John McCain is, he doesn't tell one thing to one group and then another thing to a different group. Obama voted for a $100 million tax break for the oil companies. I had to fight it in Alaska.

Iffil: So there's nothing you'd take off the table?

Palin: No. But the bailout plan needs massive oversight.

Biden: We're trying to give a windfall profits tax. I give the govenor credit for that in her state. But John McCain refuses to do that. He's trying to give away another $4 Billion dollars to the oil companies. Barack Obama wants to take that money and give that money back to you. So I hope Palin can convince McCain, because he's been against it and is trying to give the money to the oil companies.

PALIN KEEPS REFUSING TO ANSWER ANY, ANY, ANY QUESTIONS. So far, she hasn't answered more than one question. Grrrrr.

Biden: In the bailout, we need to adjust the bankruptcy laws so that not just the interest is handled, but also the principle can be adjusted.

Palin: I want to talk more about energy... (editor: *sighs*)

Iffil: Climate Change?

Palin: I don't necessarily believe Climate Change is man made, but I don't want to argue about it. I want to reduce emissions, and work to decrease U.S. emissions over other countries who don't take this as seriously as other countries.

Biden: If you don't understand the cause of something, you can't fix it. Climate change is caused by man. It is that simple.

Palin: The chant is "Drill Baby Drill." We need to drill from U.S. sources, support nuclear power, clean coal.

Iffil: Gay rights?

Palin: I have diverse friends, and neither McCain or I would ever so anything to get in the way of visitation rights. I am against Gay Marriage -- marriage should be between a man and a woman.

Biden: Gay rights should be the same as any rights between anyone. Period. Exception: Neither Obama or I support gay marriage.

Iffil: Do you agree with Sen. Biden?

Palin: I agree with Sen. Biden in what he said about not supporting gay marriage.

Iffil: Good. Then you agree.

(Ed. Note. Nothing in what Palin said was an agreement between the two.)

Palin: Obama voted against the war, voted against the troops.

Biden: What you said was untrue. We will end this war.

Palin: Your plan is a white flag of surrender. You said you supporting a lot of these positions until you ran with Obama on the ticket; I don't know how you can support them now.

Biden: John McCain voted against funding the troops because it had and I quote, "a timeline" in it, and he didn't like it. John McCain has been dead wrong on the fundamental issues relating to the war. Those are the facts.

Iffil: Who is more dangerous, Iran or Pakistan?

Biden: My big problem is McCain's position is that the problem is Iraq. If an attack comes it will come from a school in the foothills. We need to be in there engaging with these people ourselves, rather than just fighting them.

Palin: We have a passion for diplomacy. Except we shouldn't sit down with them.

Biden: It amazes me that Sen. McCain does not realize you can not work with people without meeting with them. Or that _____ has no power in Iran, that the Clerics control the security apparatus. Even George Bush after five years sent a high ranking State Department official to sit down with someone from Iran in Europe. Finally, Sen. McCain said two weeks ago, that he wouldn't even meet with the Prime Minister of SPAIN, a NATO ally, who has troops in Afghanistan. How can this be?

(Ed. note: Palin is now being CUTE again. Calling McCain a Maverick. Cute, cute, cute.)

(Ed note: This is painful. She's totally outclassed. When she doesn't know what to do, she falls back on cute and stories. She knows some facts, but is massively over her head. And she makes up lies.)

Biden: The general in Afghanistan today said the surge principle would NOT work. Second, nuclear weapons require a nuclear arms package and control strategy. John McCain has consistently voted against such packages.

Palin: A surge would work.

Biden: Um, the general in charge there said it would not.

Biden: We have the power now to put a no-fly over Darfur.

Palin: I agree with the no-fly being on the table.

Biden: When genocide is happening, then it is time to act. As Barack Obama made clear in his position on Iraq, he was against this from the very start, unlike what Sen. McCain or Dick Cheney were for.

Palin: You can say what you want to say, but tomorrow when the pundits talk, we'll see. John McCain has been to war. He knows how to win a war. He knows what evil is.

Ifill: If you should ever have to become President?

Biden: That would be a national tragedy of historic proportions. I'd continue Obama's policies.

Palin: I disagree with the Senator on ANWAR, and I appreciate that Sen. McCain allows me a spirited debate.

Biden: Come down to Home Depot with me, then ask anyone if there is a single major initiative if anyone there in the middle class and ask if anything from the Bush Administration has done anything for them. That's what the McCain administration is, the same thing.

Palin: Oh Joe, there you go again, not looking forward. We need to look at education and see what is possible and put more attention there.

Ifill: Vice President have extra powers?

Palin: Flexible, do what the constitution says. Executive experience.

Biden: Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous Vice President in the history of the United States. (Ed note: and about two paras of SLAMMING Cheney, with specifics. Snap.)

Palin: Shining City on a Hill, as Reagan says. (Ed note: It's John Winthrop. Duh.)

Biden: I understand being a single parent. I know what it like to wrestle with the need for real change. Barack Obama will bring change.

Palin: Maverick. Maverick. No more partisinship. Change is coming and John McCain is bringing it.

Biden: John McCain is not a mavrick on the issues that matter to people's lives. Not on education, not on the war, not on virtually anything that people talk about around the kitchen table. He voted even against heat for people in their homes. So maverick he is not on issues which matter around the kitchen table.

Ifill: Changes you made since you were elected?

Biden: Changed who I was in terms of what I think about judges. Now I'm committed to judicial thinking. Example: Judge Bork.

Palin: No. Always seem to find a way to work together, not caring who gets the credit for what.

Closing Statements

Palin: Nice to talk without the filter of the media. We're going to fight for the middle-class person. I've been there. We're blessed to live in America. We have to fight for our freedoms, economic and national security.

Biden: Most important election in your entire life. Last eight years have been bad. There's a need for change. We measure progress based on if you can pay your mortgage or send your kid to college, or if our military can fight with the best equipment, or get good education when they come home. We believe in the negighorhoods we grew up in, we could accomplish anything. We intend to reestablish that for all of us. May God bless all of us, and may God protect our troops.

Iffil: Next debate next Tuesday

Okay, comments.

She didn't do as bad as I thought.

Biden CLEARLY won.

No major gaffes on Palin's part. She and the McCain campaign will be breathing a huge sigh of relief.

On the other hand, Biden HAMMERED his points home, clearly overpowering her on places where she was lying. And she was lying, simply not telling the truth in several places.

The problem is, to the casual viewer, that won't be clear. And Palin will look like she did okay.

She kept pulling the conversation back to the conversational, steering clear of the facts, moving to anticdotal, which is her strength. Frankly, she exceeded expectations so far as the debate went. Yet in terms of independents, I'll say independents probably moved towards Obama/Biden by 2/1.

Why? Because it was clear to anyone watching, that Palin was still faking at a certain level, and Biden truly knows his stuff.

Anyway, LIVE from Seattle, this is Jesse. Thanks for being here. Good night.

See you Tuesday night for the Presidental Debate.